@hosford42 Humans beings respond to reward, are motivated by reward. Until we can change our nature to WE>ME instead of ME>WE the system most likely needs to continue to be reward based on effort and value. I’m open to counters and to what those rewards should be.
@Huntn00 I like the idea of wealth caps. But I hesitate when you say smart people "should" be at the top, for the very same reason. Differences in pay are a useful means to an end, nothing more. They serve to motivate folks who won the birth lottery to share what they can do with everyone around them. We don't need arbitrary pay differences to do that. It can be done with a smaller range of variation. But even when we pay someone more than someone else, it doesn't mean they *deserve* it.
@hosford42 For decades I’ve asked, how much money does it take to live a good life, say annually-$100k, $300k, $1m, $10m?I’m believe in caps on wealth and income, which is a hostile notion to today’s capitalism. As the smartest person on the block and most valuable, you should be at the top. We just need to redefine what the top is. Post WWII, the top tax bracket was in the 90% range for less than $1m annual. With consensus and bigger numbers, we could do something similar today.
@Huntn00 If I had my way, this is how our economy would be structured: Startups and privately owned companies could exist, but selling or "exiting" a company would always take the form of converting it to a cooperative. Allowing startups would still incentivize founders to invest their time and resources into creating value. But the created value would take the form of an organization that works to benefit to the broader community, to the extent that they are willing to purchase shares in it even with no expectation of profits extracted from other people's pockets.
@Huntn00 Another thing I would do, to further answer your question, is to establish a UBI. This addresses the social safety net you mention. I also think education and medical care should be "free" -- meaning taxpayer funded, for anybody who feels the urge to jump in and point that out. We live in a wealthy society that can easily afford these things, and all of them directly benefit society as a whole without damaging the mechanisms that got us that wealth in the first place, specifically market incentives. Even UBI leaves that intact, only reducing the urgency of being unemployed from "I am about to be homeless and starve" to "I can't have this bonus stuff that I want".
@Huntn00 There is nothing special about for-profit corporations, that they should be enshrined in our legal system and receive the special treatment they get. We can accomplish the same things through cooperatives. There are a few aspects of cooperatives that make them a much better organizational method, from a societal perspective. They prevent the concentration of wealth, since they are equally co-owned by the workers and/or customers instead of wealthy investors. For the same reason, they prevent the concentration of power, since they operate democratically. They are also more stable and robust to economic impacts. And if all publicly traded corporations were instead cooperatives, we could do away with the stock market and its inherent volatility altogether.
@hosford42 I’m no economic expert either. I think it is important to take that Marx statement and determine what it means when actually applied to a society. Equality, equal opportunity? It kind of sounds like “know your place” as a means of control, which would not give me warm and fuzzies living under Capitalism. I don’t think C will be able to best serve millions in the up and coming age of automation and AI. Socialism might be better if we can get our heads on straight. 🤔
@Huntn00 I'll say up front, I don't have all the answers. I'm still figuring things out, as we all are for our entire existence.
I believe strongly in equality for all, but I also recognize that we are constrained by practicality and live amongst a sizeable number of people who have no qualms about behaving selfishly. That's the reason I can agree with Marxist ideology without being a communist. Capitalism and the free market serve to motivate those selfish folks to better society in return for selfish gain. We treat them as if they are more deserving because of their abilities, because this serves to help our needs be met at a societal level. A necessary evil, you might say.
But capitalism also results in wealth concentration, as we currently implement it, which is an evil which is *far* from necessary. This is largely due to our economy being centered around for-profit corporations with disparate levels of ownership.
More to follow...
@hosford42 I ask in a friendly tone how is this, or how would you apply this regarding an economic system composed of millions of participants? Things such as opportunities of education, social safety nets, medical care, and basic subsistence? 🤔
So even though I am not a communist by any stretch of the imagination, I can agree wholeheartedly with Marx in his assessment of what is right regarding abilities and needs. "From each according to [their] ability, to each according to [their] need," is a self-evident truth, derivable from first principles and the sole assumption that human beings have worth in the first place.
@Huntn00 I agree. And I do not let myself forget that more than 50% of white US Christians of all stripes voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. This is a huge indictment of the white iteration of Christianity in the US.
@woozle @pluralistic Imo the problem is and has been politicians who sell fantasies and the gullible Koolaid drinkers who believe them. For example “we can endlessly cut your taxes without any ramifications”. Here, take $100, oh just ignore the millions of wealthy welfare millionaires we helped out. 🤔
2023-07-10 In defense of Deliverism:
The radical idea that people vote for politicians who make their lives better. (by @pluralistic)
In my view, anyone who says we can't expect our representatives to let us have nice things because we have to compromise is selling something.
My Dad was a big gearhead — just *really* into cars.
This meant learning basic car stuff was part of my childhood, even though I was never especially interested/good at it.
He knew this, so he’d always low-key fix my car whenever I came home. And he also left stuff in my car he figured I’d need — cables, gear, a helpful note in a manual, etc.
Dad died in 2018, but I keep finding stuff he left behind when I need it — I found another this morning.
Thanks for still looking out for me, Dad.
Welp!
Lawyers for #Trump asked fed judge to delay criminal trial over Trump’s alleged mishandling of classified #documents until after next year’s election.
In fed court filing in Miami, attorneys for Trump & #Nauta, said that to “begin a trial of this magnitude within 6 mos of #TrumpIndictment is unreasonable, telling, would result in miscarriage of justice” #legal
So now I’m taking Ergocalciferol.
What a name for vitamin D2.
50,000 units sounds like a lot. Officially I’ve got osteoporosis like Mom and Grandma. I think it means I’m going to be one of those old ladies who gets shorter and shorter. I lost 1” in height within last year or so. Drat. I liked being tall: 69” sounded great. Have to be more careful to avoid breaking a bone. It’s also used to treat rickets (softening of the bones caused by vitamin D deficiency). First time I actually feel old.
@uspolitics This might work out. Adolf Trump beaten down by Mental Clown Trump beaten by Old Man Biden. That said Biden should be retiring, we need some competent young blood to take the reigns and that would not include any Trump minions such as 🚫Jordan, 🚫Gaetz and 🚫Greene. 😷
United States Attorney’s Office
Southern District of New York
PRESS RELEASE
U.S. Attorney Announces Charges Against Co-Director Of Think Tank For Acting As An Unregistered Foreign Agent, Trafficking In Arms, Violating U.S. Sanctions Against Iran, And Making False Statements To Federal Agents
Monday, July 10, 2023
For Immediate Release
U.S. Attorney's Office, Southern District of New York
Gal Luft, a Dual U.S.-Israeli Citizen, Allegedly Evaded FARA Registration While Working to Advance the Interests of China in the United States and Sought to Broker the Illicit Sales of Chinese-Manufactured Weapons and Iranian Oil to China
Damian Williams, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Matthew G. Olsen, the Assistant Attorney General for National Security, and Christie M. Curtis, the Acting Assistant Director in Charge of the New York Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”), announced today the unsealing of an...
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-charges-against-co-director-think-tank-acting-unregistered
#PoliticalModerate #Independent, #SocialLiberal, #Agnostic, #Unions, #Veteran, retired airline pilot. Supports level playing fields, equal opportunity, and democracy, not how to twist it to my advantage; capitalism/corporation critic, 🚫Today’s GOP, 🚫MAGA. Human species pessimist, pondering the Great Filter and do we have the Right Stuff? 🇺🇸 Citizen residing in a blue enclave of Texas.